.Janet Klug> Hi Foster and Paul!

LloydStamps> How important is appearance of the pages? Are computer printed pages acceptable?

.Janet Klug> Computer printed pages absolutely acceptable.

.Paul Schrader> Where do you go once you've made up your mind to exhibit...Where do you start?

.Janet Klug> Appearance counts for 5 points.

.Janet Klug> However.....it is a subtle thing.

.Janet Klug> If your exhibit looks junky, the judges might think what you are showing is junk.

.Foster Miller> I'll start with a simple question - what hints do you have for mounting or

.Foster Miller> exhibiting covers?

.Janet Klug> Large or small?

.Foster Miller> Mostly standard 6 3/4 size first day covers - but probably an occasional #10

.Janet Klug> Foster....large covers or small covers?

.Janet Klug> The standards are easy. You can put two or three on a single page no problem.

.chgarcia> mind if i watch for a bit...i'm a beginning coin collector

.Janet Klug> Sometimes I stagger mine.

.Janet Klug> Mount one far to the right with write up on the left, then the next one mount far left,

.chgarcia> my daughter is the stamp collector in the family

.Janet Klug> Bottom one back to far right.

.Janet Klug> The #10s are a bit tricky.

.Janet Klug> You can slant them sideways.

.Janet Klug> Or....you can butt two pages together and mount them across the two pages.

.Janet Klug> But then of course you have a LOT more space to fill up.

LloydStamps> Coin collectors are welcome, CH.

.Janet Klug> One cover on two pages isn't much.

.chgarcia> thank you much...it's nice to have time to collect now

LloydStamps> In laying out a page with a 3-cover cachet, Janet, I found that 3 #6-3/4 are 10.5 inches in height.

LloydStamps> So I was going to put the write-up (text) on the preceding or following page.

.Janet Klug> Right....you can overlap them a bit on the staggered layout I described.

.Foster Miller> Are there any preferences on how to physically mount them - "photo corners", polysleeves etc.

.Janet Klug> It won't muck up the cachets unless they are all over cachets.

.Janet Klug> Yes Foster, there is. Clear corner mounts are best.

LloydStamps> They are, of course, and they have to be stacked for the full effect.

LloydStamps> Any particular brand of mounts you recommend?

.Janet Klug> The best ones are sold in only one place now, however and they are realyy expensive.

.Janet Klug> Leonard Hartmann carries them (he's on the internet) and they are $10 a pack

[In a follow-up message in the Forum's Message Board, Janet said, "The drawback is that they are not cheap at $10 per hundred (mounts 50 covers -- you only need one corner for two opposing corners and the cover is mounted). Contact Hartmann by e-mail at pbbooks@ibm.net. Check out his online catalog of books at http://www.pbbooks.com. (I have no stake in this. I have bought items from him and recommend his products and service as a satisfied customer.)]

.Janet Klug> Next best is a brand called "imperial" from Subway.

LloydStamps> How many in a pack?

.Janet Klug> They are not really very good.

.Janet Klug> Only 100 in a pack. Mounts 50 covers.

LloydStamps> I bought some in an art store last year, and had a lot of trouble with them...self-adhesive -- stuck to everything but where I wanted them.

.Janet Klug> Yeah....that's what Subway sells. The Hartmann ones are best. The best part is they are reusable.

.Janet Klug> They are gummed, but they peel off and you can use a glue stick over and over.

.Foster Miller> Thanks, I just took some notes.

LloydStamps> And they stick well enough in the vertical (frame) position?

.Janet Klug> Never had a bit of problem with them, Lloyd

.Janet Klug> And some of the stuff I mount is HEAVY

LloydStamps> All those tin cans, huh?

.Paul Schrader> Can you post the Hartmann website on the message board?

.Janet Klug> You got it. Try mounting YOUR can on a page!

.Janet Klug> Yes. Hang on a sec. I might have the info right here.

LloydStamps> CH, we have Kids chats every Saturday night.

LloydStamps> And a regular stamps chat on Wednesdays

.Foster Miller> tin cans would make for an interesting exhibit - I don't know what the judges would say

.Janet Klug> No...not right where it was supposed to be.

.Jeffrey Hayward> are scans acceptable for strange size items?

.Janet Klug> Foster, Lloyd was referring to my tin can mail.

LloydStamps> Oooh, good question.

.Janet Klug> Jeffrey, scans are acceptable for showing the backs of covers, for showing cancels that aren't clear....

.Janet Klug> For highlighting varieties on stamps being shown.

.Janet Klug> But scans should never, ever take the place of actual philatelic material being shown in the frames.

.Foster Miller> So you would mount the cover and scan of its backstamp in the same frame?

.Janet Klug> Also, if you want to show a scan of some item, be sure to either enlarge or reduce it from actual size.

LloydStamps> Why?

.Janet Klug> Yep! I think you've got it!

.Janet Klug> Because scans and color photocopies are TOO good these days. I have actually been on juries where we had to open a frame to see if the material shown was genuine or memorex.

.Janet Klug> If it is a scan or copy parading around as the genuine item, the exhibit is downgraded.

.Foster Miller> Is a color scan becoming a requirement or would a black and white Xerox copy do?

LloydStamps> Have you ever seen an exhibit with a fake like that?

.Janet Klug> There are no requirements in this area. Whatever is convenient and looks nice. Just remember to reduce or enlarge from actual size.

.Janet Klug> Yes, Lloyd.

.Janet Klug> May I tell you about that?

.Janet Klug> It is an interesting story.

LloydStamps> Sure. This stuff must get really competitive.

.Janet Klug> No. Not competitive, really. It is just that what the judges are judging is the material being shown.

.Janet Klug> If the material being shown is not genuine, how should we judge it?

.Janet Klug> The exhibit I recall was a lovely exhibit of Canada Semi-Official Airmails.

LloydStamps> No, I meant you'd have to be pretty desperate to put in a substitute, falsely.

.Janet Klug> The tough stuff was there on cover. The easy stuff was photocopied.

.Janet Klug> The simple answer was the guy bought the tough stuff first.

.Janet Klug> Then needed the easy stuff to show an exhibit, only he didn't have it.

.Janet Klug> So instead of waiting, he copied it from a catalog.

LloydStamps> Doesn't sound very bright.

.Janet Klug> He didn't know there were regulation about that. I felt bad because

.Janet Klug> his exhibit was downgraded and he had GREAT stuff!

.Janet Klug> He has since gone on to receive silvers and vermeils.

LloydStamps> Do people knowingly and (criminally?) substitute?

LloydStamps> Illicitly? Can't find right word.

.Janet Klug> I'm sure they do.

LloydStamps> Do they get caught?

.Janet Klug> However, we can't tell from looking at the stuff usually if they are trying purposely to deceive, or are just ignorant.

.Janet Klug> Either way, if it is detected, their exhibit suffers.

.Foster Miller> Another question - what about a title page - if I'm doing a one-frame exhibit like Lloyd, do I need one?

.Janet Klug> Absolutely. In fact, the title page is even more important.

.Janet Klug> It has to outline what it is you are trying to do in your one frame.

.Janet Klug> You have to "set the stage" so to speak.

.Janet Klug> The title page is where you tell the viewer what you are going to do in your allotted space.

.Janet Klug> Notice I say viewer instead of judge.

LloydStamps> Mine is real short. If I'm not giving anything away, may I tell you what it is?

.Jeffrey Hayward> This may be very basic, but do you tell the story with the stamps, or the story about the stamps?

.Janet Klug> Please do, Lloyd. I'm looking for a good idea to steal.

.Janet Klug> Jeff, if you are doing a thematic or topical exhibit, then you are telling a story with stamps.

LloydStamps> Not a direct quote, but the first line is "This is a basic FDC," then I show a grubby ArtCraft, and say "but they can be much more."

.Janet Klug> If you are doing a traditional or postal history exhibit, you are telling about the stamps (or covers)

.Janet Klug> Lloyd, do you have one wallapalooza at the end?

.Jeffrey Hayward> Hope you folks don't mind, but I have an even more basic question.

LloydStamps> I like to think I have several walla -- whatevers in the exhibit.

LloydStamps> Go ahead, Jeffrey.

.Janet Klug> All ears, Jeff

.Jeffrey Hayward> How do you research postal history. Any great resources other than old philatelic literature?

.Janet Klug> Depends on postal history of WHAT

.Janet Klug> The American Philatelic Research Library is GREAT

.Jeffrey Hayward> Sorry I know it's a broad question.

.Janet Klug> And the card catalog is now on line.

.Janet Klug> You can search for titles that sound promising and have them sent to you.

.Janet Klug> You can go to government postal authorities records, if they exist.

.Foster Miller> The National Postal Museum in Washington DC has all the pre USPS Post Office Department archives

.Jeffrey Hayward> I was a member for three years and everything I was looking for they did not have ;-(.

.Janet Klug> In silly little countries I collect they don't exist.

.Janet Klug> You can try interlibrary loan for titles that are hard to find.

.Janet Klug> My local public library turns up wonderful things for me.

.Janet Klug> Also, don't forget specialists societies.

.Foster Miller> The APRL is excellent if you have an idea what you are looking for

.Janet Klug> German Philatelic Society, Bureau Issues Association.

.Jeffrey Hayward> I love to read, so no problem with the library.

LloydStamps> Jeffrey, you weren't getting anywhere with APRL?

Jerry Jensen> Everyone set to go out and get that "gold" now?

.Janet Klug> Here is a question for all of you. Are you WANTING to get a gold? Why exhibit?

.Foster Miller> Some of us are still figuring out how (and when) to do our first exhibit

.Jeffrey Hayward> No, everything I looked for they did't have yet. I've converted 80% to topical collections.

.Janet Klug> Have you tried the ATA for resource material, Jeffrey?

.Jeffrey Hayward> Great question Janet. I was actually asking myself the same question, except is sounded more like "Am I crazy!"

.Foster Miller> I'd just like to exhibit for fun - maybe find some other people who collect the same issues that I do

.Janet Klug> GREAT answer, Foster!

Jerry Jensen> There is so much information out on the web, just a bit hard to find at times.

LloydStamps> Not me, actually. I explained my reasons earlier.

LloydStamps> AMERICOVER (and AmeriStamp) need exhibitors; I want to know more about it;

.Jeffrey Hayward> I guess I just want to share what I like about my collection.

LloydStamps> I think we need more "fun" exhibits on stuff like I collect; and I can write about it :)

.Janet Klug> All great answers. I notice none of you mentioned "getting a gold" or whatever.

.Janet Klug> Bare Males? [moderate pause]

.Janet Klug> Wow, that brought conversation to a halt.

LloydStamps> Was trying to figure out where that non sequitur came from...

LloydStamps> Pleasant Plain, Ohio!

.Janet Klug> Fun exhibits....

.Foster Miller> I agree with Lloyd - I like fun or educational exhibits

LloydStamps> I enjoyed Ken Lawrence's Disney or Disney/Football exhibit at Pac97.

LloydStamps> Or was it Mega Event in NYC? Somewhere.

LloydStamps> I'm kicking myself for missing the ones at AmeriStamp.

Jerry Jensen> snicket.... exhibiting forces one to organize ones collection better and search out new information on what one does have.

.Jeffrey Hayward> My inspiration was Dan Olsen's VW Beetle exhibit.

.Janet Klug> Let's change the world of philately. Start making exhibits for FUN.

.Janet Klug> Jeff...I saw that, too. Loved it.

.Foster Miller> One of my favorites has been Steve Suffet's exhibit on Woody Guthrie

.Janet Klug> Reminded me of the 60s

.Jeffrey Hayward> Yeah, I didn't get to see it in person though.

LloydStamps> I associate the VW Beetle more with the 1960s than the Mustang...but that's another night's chat :)

.Janet Klug> Off topic, Lloyd.

LloydStamps> I also plan to publish my exhibit on the Internet or perhaps FIRST DAYS magazine if it gets polished enough.

.Foster Miller> Jeffrey - you were going to tell us about the VW exhibit when Janet arrived - I've never seen it

Jerry Jensen> Ken's Disney and Steve's top notch stuff on common, uncommon draw a lot of interest.

.Janet Klug> One of the societies I belong to is having an exhibit by mail program

.Jeffrey Hayward> Mr. Olsen explained its beginning in Germany and was able to tie in some very impressive postal history.

.Janet Klug> Everyone copies their exhibit. We'll run them as inserts to issues of the newsletter.

.Janet Klug> Also put a few on the web site.

.Jeffrey Hayward> Including pictorial cancels and meters I didn't know existed for the time, Germany 1939.

.Foster Miller> I wonder if he is exhibiting it at the National Topical Stamp Show coming up in July

Jerry Jensen> nothing impossible about putting an exhibit/collection on a CD ROM these days, could use a web browser to look at it or actually put it on a site (be a bit large though)

.Janet Klug> Anybody have questions on how exhibits are judged?

.Jeffrey Hayward> -I was thinking about creating my page in HTML for a first try.

Jerry Jensen> VWs were Hitler's gift to the world.

LloydStamps> Most of us,

JERRY, are thinking about one-frame exhibits at this point...shouldn't take that much web space

.Paul Schrader> How are exhibits judged?

.Foster Miller> I think I have an idea how first day covers are judged at AMERICOVER - but how would they be judged elsewhere?

LloydStamps> I've been using MS Word, but, then, I use MS word even for my HTML.

.Janet Klug> I believe the same way Foster.

.Janet Klug> All the guidelines for judging are in the Manual of Philatelic Judging published by APS

.Janet Klug> Now out of print, but a new edition slated for this fall.

.Jeffrey Hayward> That's one I'll buy right away.

Jerry Jensen> Why can't the APS put it on the APS site for everyone to read?

.Janet Klug> Good idea, Jeff. If you are going to play the game, you might as well know the rules.

.Paul Schrader> So if I were going to exhibit I should read the manual?

LloydStamps> I know Alan Warren, an AFDCS charter member, is writing/editing the FDC rules.

.Janet Klug> That's an idea. Right now they can't because they are about at the limit for the website.

.Foster Miller> I'd buy one too - the reference I have now on first day cover exhibiting is from a seminar that Alan Warren has given several times

.Janet Klug> Paul, yes, I would suggest that. You can borrow a copy now from APRL.

.Janet Klug> If you know what the judges look for in an exhibit, then you know what to put in!

LloydStamps> He was kind enough to send me his draft, but I don't know if I can distribute it further.

.Jeffrey Hayward> Are the exhibits relatively safe when they are out of our hands?

Jerry Jensen> Janet, think the APS would give the GPS permission to put it on our site?

.Foster Miller> Is Alan Warren writing or rewriting the rules - in other words, will the new manual have new rules?

.Janet Klug> Yes Jeff. All shows use reasonable caution for their exhibits. Overnight guards.

LloydStamps> I don't think they're major changes, Foster, but I wasn't that familiar with the old ones :)

Jerry Jensen> Jeffery, I use express mail to and from the shows, it only takes two days each way then.

LloydStamps> And I don't think Alan just writes something, and it's law. I think it'll have to be...legislated?

.Foster Miller> Legislated by whom?

LloydStamps> Whoever or whatever body sets the rules for exhibiting, I guess.

.Paul Schrader> You mail your exhibit to shows?

LloydStamps> I'm going to be lucky, because I can drive to AMERICOVER this year.

Jerry Jensen> you bet I do, never had a problem either. Express mail is expensive but only in the postal system a max of two days

.Paul Schrader> And they put them in the frames for you?

.Foster Miller> When I've help mount the exhibits for AMERICOVER, at least half of them usually come via mail. And most people use either Express or Priority Mail.

.Foster Miller> If you do mail them in, be sure the number the pages so that we can put them up in the correct order.

Jerry Jensen> The show workers (sometimes even the judges) put them tenderly in the frames as if they were their own material

.Paul Schrader> I didn't know that!

LloydStamps> Also, most exhibitors supply their pages within plastic page protectors

.Janet Klug> I personally would not rather my exhibits, although I DO.

.Foster Miller> that's especially true when you're mounting something that you can't afford or obtain for your own collection

.Janet Klug> When I do, I use Express Mail as recommended by APS insurance

Jerry Jensen> Janet, think the APS would give permission for me to put the judge's handbook on the Germany Philatelic Soc. site? have lots of room

LloydStamps> Boy, I wouldn't want to be the volunteer mounting Berkun's Aristocrats of FDC exhibit at AMERICOVER!

.Janet Klug> Maybe,

JERRY. Ask.

LloydStamps> Janet, who sets the rules for exhibiting? APS or APES?

Jerry Jensen> Always put exhibit pages in protectors and number them on the back

.Janet Klug> APS issues guidelines.

.Janet Klug> Not rules. You don't HAVE to follow them.

Jerry Jensen> whom should I ask?

.Foster Miller> I was hoping that I would get a chance to mount Alan's exhibit

LloydStamps> Well, you get downgraded if you don't follow them.

.Janet Klug> Send letter to Bob Lamb, JERRY.

LloydStamps> Better you than me, Foster. I'd be too nervous.

.Janet Klug> True, Lloyd.

.Janet Klug> That's the chance you take if you don't want to do it the accepted way.

.Janet Klug> But sometimes you have to do it your way just to shake things up.

.Janet Klug> If you do, though, don't expect the big prize.

LloydStamps> My goal at AMERICOVER '98 is Best Novice Exhibit :)

.Janet Klug> I wish you the best, Lloyd.

Jerry Jensen> Show what you want, the way you want. If the judges don't like it, listen to their reasons.

.Foster Miller> Isn't there a new class (display class, I think) for the non-traditional exhibits?

.Jeffrey Hayward> The shake up is the fun part, right?

.Janet Klug> Yes, Foster.

LloydStamps> Don't know what I'll do in 1999, though. There's no award for Best SECOND Year Exhibit!

.Janet Klug> These are judged in a new way, too.

.Janet Klug> Using points, which are generally not used in the US for exhibits.

.Janet Klug> Jeff, sometimes the shaking up is fun!

.Janet Klug> Sometimes.....every once in awhile.....the exhibits start to look all the same.

.Foster Miller> If US judges don't use points, what do they use?

.Janet Klug> THAT's when you have to shake things up!

.Janet Klug> The guidelines by APS, Foster.

Jerry Jensen> Display class puts no premium on the cost or scarcity of the material, its all in how you develop the story of your exhibit and how you present it

.Foster Miller> I'm confused.

.Janet Klug> Let's try to unconfuse you.

.Janet Klug> What confuses you, Foster?

.Foster Miller> what

Jerry Jensen> Now that everyone here can do!

.edd> Any examples for traditional and non traditional

.Foster Miller> what is the difference between the APS guidelines and the point system?

.Janet Klug> Points are just that....a scoresheet where points are listed out.

.Janet Klug> 5 points for presentation, 25 points for condition of material, 35 points for "development" (essentially that means telling the story)

.Janet Klug> etc.

LloydStamps> And how are exhibits judged otherwise?

.Janet Klug> The APS guidelines look for the same sorts of things, but we don't affix points.

.Janet Klug> It is, I suppose, a little more subjective and a little less structured.

.Foster Miller> Lloyd - exactly my question - I thought everything was judged on points

.Janet Klug> No, Foster. In this country only the following are judged by points:

.Janet Klug> Youth, Display Class, One Frame Exhibits, and sometimes Thematics.

.Janet Klug> Traditional and postal history are NOT judged on points system.

.Janet Klug> But please remember, the judges are still LOOKING for the same things as if they were mentally affixing points.

LloydStamps> Could a judge use points for his own sake, just not officially? Or does it have to be less structured?

Jerry Jensen> Even the "point" judged exhibits are judged by points only IF the show committee wants it that way

.Janet Klug> Lloyd, I honestly don't know the answer to that. I think it would be time consuming to be using a different system than the remainder of the jury.

.Janet Klug> I can't see any benefit to doing it that way.

.Foster Miller> So the US system is really more subjective than numerical

.Janet Klug> The problem with using points is that often a judge will look at an exhibit, think, well, that's a gold.

.Janet Klug> Then you have to rig up the points so that it comes up to a gold.

LloydStamps> And then have to justify it by points...ah, you said yes.

.Janet Klug> Yes, Foster.

.Foster Miller> I'm a computer person - I think I like the numbers better - at least it would tell a person where he needs to improve

LloydStamps> Doesn't the difference in judging systems hurt US exhibits internationally?

.Janet Klug> Judges look for excellence in covering the subject, difficulty of acquiring the material, the condition of the material being shown, the level of research.

.Janet Klug> Foster, if you want to know how to improve, you need only go to the critique and ASK.

.Janet Klug> Judges will also come to the frames with you and discuss your exhibit with you till you drop.

LloydStamps> What's the etiquette for the critiques?

.Janet Klug> That is why the judge is at the show.

.Janet Klug> Leave weapons at the door.

Jerry Jensen> Joining the AAPES also will help you to get information.

.Janet Klug> The jury chairman will announce specific rules for his or her critique.

LloydStamps> And that's all, Janet? :)

Jerry Jensen> ideas and even a non "show" critique

.Janet Klug> But essentially, you raise your hand and ask if the jury will comment on your exhibit.

LloydStamps> They don't comment unless asked?

.Janet Klug> One member of the jury will have been assigned to your exhibit, and will make comments (hopefully constructive) about how to improve your exhibit.

LloydStamps> Could I ask the jury to comment on, say, Foster's exhibit?

.Janet Klug> No...the jury won't comment on your exhibit unless asked.

.Janet Klug> Yes, Lloyd....at the end after all the exhibitors present have been satisfied.

Jerry Jensen> It also helps to listen to what the other exhibitors are being told, then go look at their exhibits too.

.Janet Klug> Probably a poor choice of words.

.Janet Klug> You can also ask a judge to go to the frames with you.

.Janet Klug> That is NOT like saying "put up your dukes"

LloydStamps> If I were to do really poorly, I think I'd want to hear the critique of an exhibit that did well.

.Janet Klug> To be perfectly honest, the most constructive, useful criticism comes at the frames, one on one.

Jerry Jensen> agent questions (for someone else's exhibit ) are taken at the end if there is time.

.Paul Schrader> Do you apply to the producers of a show to include your exhibit?

.Janet Klug> Yes, Paul. You ask them to send you a prospectus which will have all the rules of the show printed on it.

LloydStamps> Slightly off-topic, but what's the deadline for STAMPSHOW 98?

.Janet Klug> coming soon, I think Lloyd. June something?

.Rudy> Paul - there is a complete exhibit prospectus available on-line at: http://members.aol.com/vapex98/

LloydStamps> There's 3 weeks between AMERICOVER and STAMPSHOW...so I thought maybe if I do well at the first...

.Foster Miller> Lloyd - were you thinking of showing your exhibit at STAMPSHOW too?

.Janet Klug> Go for it, Lloyd!

.Janet Klug> I want to put together a new one frame for next Winter Show.

LloydStamps> I don't know if I'd have the nerve to try STAMPSHOW until I see the reception at the relatively-safe AMERICOVER

.Janet Klug> Ok...let's talk about that.

.Foster Miller> you'd probably be safer at STAMPSHOW <VBG>

.Janet Klug> The first time you exhibit, the first time you see your work up in the frames....well....

.Janet Klug> your heart pounds fast, your palms sweat.

Jerry Jensen> reception? They don't lynch exhibitors! Go for both.

.Janet Klug> And you wish you had a big white sheet to throw over the tops of the frames.

.Janet Klug> But you get over that!

LloydStamps> The exhibit I plan is everything I hear mainstream judges hate.

.Janet Klug> All it takes is for ONE person to say, hey, I really enjoyed your exhibit.

.Janet Klug> :-)

.Janet Klug> Instant gratification.

LloydStamps> Not every exhibit always gets an award, right?

.Janet Klug> Go for it Lloyd.

.Foster Miller> All the more reason to exhibit it - there will probably be more FDC collectors at the show than flyspeck collectors

.Janet Klug> No, not every exhibit gets an award.

LloydStamps> You don't get a bronze just for showing up.

.Janet Klug> But if you are exhibiting for FUN, who cares?

.Janet Klug> The FUN is putting together the exhibit and showing others what you have done.

Jerry Jensen> I once put a one framer together that the judges refused (contrary to implicit APS rules) to judge!

.Janet Klug> The award, if there is one, is icing on the cake.

LloydStamps> Well, fun, yes, but I don't want to have my collecting specialty torn apart, either.

Jerry Jensen> but the crowd loved it, most rewarding thing I ever did

LloydStamps> Was it electronic, JERRY? :)

.Janet Klug> Lloyd, you raise a serious question.

Jerry Jensen> no, every stamp except 1 was a forgery

LloydStamps> (There was a problem with an electronic literature exhibit at STAMPSHOW 97)

.Foster Miller> Another question - how long should it take me to put together an exhibit?

.Janet Klug> Judges have a code of conduct and sign a pledge

.Paul Schrader> I havr really enjoyed this, but have to leave. Thanks Janet...good night everyone!

.Janet Klug> They can't be accredited until that pledge is signed.

.Janet Klug> Nite Paul

.Paul Schrader> - signed off -

LloydStamps> Thanks for coming, Paul.

Jerry Jensen> all judges will respect your collecting specialty, some may just not like how you presented it.

LloydStamps> Oh. that's reassuring.

.Jeffrey Hayward> That's what's been holding me back!

.Janet Klug> If a judge EVER ridicules your collecting specialty, I want to know about it.

.Janet Klug> If this happens it is an infraction of the judging code.

.Jeffrey Hayward> I DO carry the Topical collector stigma.

.Rudy> Good nite all - and I look forward to hearing how your foray into exhibiting turns out, Lloyd!

LloydStamps> So they're judging the presentation, not the types of material?

.Janet Klug> Judges are supposed to be supportive and encouraging.

.Janet Klug> Don't understand your question, Lloyd.

LloydStamps> It's just that I've heard horror stories about exhibits disallowed or downgraded because they included modern, cacheted FDCs.

.Janet Klug> They are judging your material. Only the stuff that can be put in the frames.

.Janet Klug> If you are putting an FDC exhibit together, then it will be judged by FDC guidelines.

.Foster Miller> Jeffrey - I don't think that there is any stigma associated with topical exhibiting

.Janet Klug> Lloyd, there are some jerks around.

.Janet Klug> Sometimes people say stupid things.

.Janet Klug> People are people. It shouldn't happen. If there is a problem, disciplinary action is taken.

LloydStamps> Hmmmmmmm. How much are one-frame entry fees, generally.

.Janet Klug> But people will go on saying stupid things sometimes.

LloydStamps> And how much is a one-frame at STAMPSHOW?

.Janet Klug> I think at Winter Show it was $15

.Janet Klug> Last year at Indypex I paid $7 or maybe $6.

.edd> How many 8.5 x 11 pages fit in one frame?

.Foster Miller> Sell a couple more Dragon cards and enter your exhibit at STAMPSHOW.

LloydStamps> Well, if I get it put together for one show, might as well go for two. And if I default again this year, might as well default for two at once :)

.Foster Miller> Generally 16 pages to a frame

Jerry Jensen> with the exception of the "one frame" exhibit shows, the one frame fee runs from $6 to 10.

LloydStamps> I'll contact Ken Martin then.

LloydStamps> Might be interesting to compare the two results, AMERICOVER vs STAMPSHOW

.Foster Miller> Maybe next year I'll do the same - I don't have the time right now.

.Janet Klug> Actually Lloyd, the results would make a good article!

LloydStamps> You? I've got my son's bar mitzvah in 2 weeks! <g>

.Janet Klug> And might highlight problems (if they exist) on how FDCs are judged.

LloydStamps> I have to find where I put the giant Star Truck Enterprise animated FDC.

.Janet Klug> Regular show judges don't see that many FDC exhibits.

Jerry Jensen> Please keep in mind though that applying to any show doesn't mean acceptance. They may be filled up and not getting into a show doesn't mean they don't want you as an exhibitor.

Jerry Jensen> They may just not have any roon left.

LloydStamps> Although I hear most shows want one-frames.

.Janet Klug> Most shows want whatever they can get!

LloydStamps> Sheesh, I better double-check and make sure I sent the check to AMERICOVER! Mondays' the deadline.

Jerry Jensen> most shows need all exhibits, I just want everyone to know that if someday you don't get into one, it isn't because they don't like your exhibit

LloydStamps> Good point to remember.

.Janet Klug> Hey, folks, it is getting late. Have all your questions been answered?

.Janet Klug> Or should we do this again?

.Janet Klug> Someday when I won't be late?

LloydStamps> Something that I should mention, vis a vis FDC exhibits: The AFDCS offers awards that shows can present for FDC exhibits.

.Jeffrey Hayward> yes ,thanks for the help

LloydStamps> Yes, please, Janet. This was one of our best chats.

.Foster Miller> Janet - thanks for the education and the encouragement - I've been at work since 830AM so it is really late for me.

LloydStamps> And I'll be posting more questions in the Message Board, bet on it!

.Foster Miller> Yes, please do this again!

Jerry Jensen> Thanks for your time, Janet. was nice working with you at ROMPEX

.Janet Klug> OK....I will try to work out a date. Maybe we should start talking about the various disciplines.

.Janet Klug> Topical exhibiting, postal history exhibiting, traditional.

.Janet Klug> What do you think>

LloydStamps> Might be too narrow for a chat like this.

LloydStamps> "Exhibiting in General" would be best, I think.

.Janet Klug> Thanks, JERRY, I enjoyed ROMPEX too.

.Janet Klug> OK....we'll stick to that and I'll try to work out a date.

.Janet Klug> Will keep you posted, Lloyd. Have to clear up the medical problems here first.

.Foster Miller> Exhibiting in General sounds good to me - have a good night everyone!